[bdcstpraise]

Need some help.

I've read quite a few threads on leaking dishwashers from various brands. It seems they are all very similar except for details. Also, it seams that potential problems could vary, but appear to be seals, etc.

Though mechanically inclined, I've never dealt with a dishwasher, so before I begin undoing things or assuming things or buying what I don't need, I am asking for some help.

The Magic Chef unit is actually probably more like 10-12 years old. Came with the house, but was fairly new, will be in the house nearly 10 years in 2008. Had a repairman here to look at my fridge, and commented on the washer, to which he said that it was past it's life expectancy...he also sells washers, dryers, fridges, etc. Thus, presume he was trying to sell me one.

Anyway, I pulled the unit out to tackle the leaking problem and looked under the unit. Everything looks clean and nearly new. However, running the unit and keeping an eye on it while it ran, I could see that it appears the leak comes from the motor shaft portion that enters the large cream housing under the unit, where the motor/pump is as per the schematic of the unit on your site. My guess is that it is probably a seal leak as the water trail on the housing is a dark to black greyish liquid look, although the water itself on the ground is not. I don't believe the housing is cracked, and the leak is slow, but enough to cause a good puddle by the end of the wash/rinse cycles.

I've read in the threads that some are approaching the repair from within the washer, but then run into issues with the motor, which lead me to believe that they have to go through the bottom, disconnecting wires and hoses, and turning counter clockwise to remove the housing to actually see what's going on or where there may be seal problems.

My questions are: Do I approach this also from within or from below? Are there any spring mechanisms that will fly when I do either, that may be difficult or impossible to put back and are there very small pieces that will disengage that I may miss in the process?

I know that without an actual view into the unit and beyond the covers and housing, it is impossible from your end to determine what is exactly wrong, but since you've seen and heard so many stories and perhaps have actual experience, you'll know generally speaking what I will be facing should I venture this journey into the dark crevices of this unit.

Anyway, this certainly hasn't been technical but probably too long drawn out. I'm trying to avoid buying more than I need, given that I have been unemployed for more than a year and money is tight. Certianly don't want or should I say, can't buy a new unit as I know I can fix this, just don't want any surprises, since I'm not familiar with it...yet.

Thanks for any help you can suggest.

[PS Staff - Sheila]

You will have to remove the pump assembly to install the new seal. This will mean that you will have to work from both the inside and underneath the dishwasher.

To start your repair disconnect the power supply to the dishwasher.

Remove the lower rack.

While holding the lower spray arm,unscrew the center wash tower.

Loosen the drain hose clamp and disconnect the drain hose from the pump housing.

Have a towel or bowl to catch about a pint of water that would have remained in the hose and pump.

Loosen the upper wash arm hose clamp and disconnect the hose from the pump.

Disconnect the wiring harness from the motor.

Remove the green ground wire leading from the drain solenoid bracket to the tub support.

Disconnect the wiring harness from the drain solenoid.

Gently pull the clamping ring handle on the left side of the pump downward and push toward the rear of the dishwasher. The clamping ring tab should align with the dent in the opening of the tub support ceiling.

Lift the pump assembly 3/4 of an inch and then tilt the right side down to allow the motor assembly to clear the tub opening. Continue to lift the assembly clear of the dishwasher tub and remove it from the dishwasher.

To remove the strainer you will need a torx screwdriver. I think it is a T20.

Unscrew the wash arm support nut from the pump volute then lift and remove it.

When you reinstall this make sure that you reposition the seal ring into the lower hub of the wash arm support.

Remove the chopper plate assembly with the pump impeller and seal.

The center shaft of the pump impeller is splined to fit onto the motor shaft and screwed into the motor fan.

With one hand, hold the chopper blade and with the other hand rotate the motor fan counter-clockwise. This is a left hand thread. Continue until the fan is released from the impeller hub.

To remove the assembly from the housing,grasp the tab on the chopper plate pulling outward while rotating clockwise.

Once the chopper plate is disengaged from the pump housing pull the assembly outwardly and firmly to slide the assembly off the motor shaft.

To disassemble the chopper plate assembly remove the blade mounting screw and then separate.

Here is a link to your dishwasher model DU4500B.

You should replace the pump to tub gasket when you reinstall the pump assembly.

[bdcstpraise]

Dear Sheila,
Thanks. As soon as I can get an evening where I can get to this without interruption...maybe tonight, I will proceed and will hopefully post an update. The outline steps look very helpful, so hopefully I'll be able to follow them well. Just was trying to avoid any surprises as well.

Maybe by my next reply/posting, I will be ordering the necessary parts.

Again, thanks.

[bdcstpraise]

Dear Shiela,
Okay, for about a week or so, I've had my dishwasher taken apart...at least up to the part where I am to "With one hand, hold the chopper blade and with the other hand rotate the motor fan counter-clockwise. This is a left hand thread. Continue until the fan is released from the impeller hub."

However, I can't seem to remove the motor from this chopper blade and housing, thus, being able to slide out that whole portion, to see where and to "... replace the pump to tub gasket when you reinstall the pump assembly".

I hold the fan like plastic rotor on the motor, and turn the shaft to which the chopper blade was connected. When I try to rotate to release or screw it off, it makes a clicking sound...

So my question is, is this thing-a-ma-jig like those child-safety caps on pills...they click until you push down and twist?

Anyway, haven't been able to separate the motor, in order to remove the area where the gasket would be replaced.

Please advise, and thanks.
Sincerely,

[denman]

This site may be usefull
Free Appliance Repair - Service Manuals
Look at the dishwasher manuals
You may find one that is a close match to yours mechanically

[bdcstpraise]

Dear Denman and Sheila,
Okay, after a few weeks of not wanting to tackle the inevitable, early this morning I finally went back to the disassembled parts, and tried again to remove the motor from the pump housing. Continuing to hear the click on the turns of the impeller fan on the shaft, seeing it go nowhere, figuring that because of age and wear, that some of these parts have apparently melded together in some way (plastic, soot, rust on the metal parts, etc.?) that most likely I'm going to have to break something here.
Well, sure enough, after several bloody knuckles, a broken impeller fan, a chewed up shaft to the motor, quite a few frustrated explitives, I now have the motor separated from the housing. However, I can't remove the remaining plastic shaft of the impeller still hearing that clicking sound on the twists, left or right (it says its a lefthanded turn, whatever that means) from the motor shaft also still connected to the plastic motor fan. Certainly don't want to have to replace a perfectly fine motor just because of the shaft issue, unless I end up torching the plastic to melt it off
Anyway it looks like I am going to have replace the impeller fan and shaft, seal kit (now that I've broken them) as well as the gasket - though I don't see anything like that in the catalog.
Just a little frustrated as you may be able to tell...not sure how to proceed. I did see that I needed to provide the series number to be sure of the parts but I can't right now as I had to put the machine back in the wall for the time being.
If I had income coming in, I'd just scrapped the whole thing and buy an new machine, but most likely and hopefully, I am just moments away from getting it - as in understanding what I need to do, order the parts and be on my way...
Anyway, any advice, direction or otherwise would be appreciated at this point.
P.S. Denman, I couldn't find anything in the link you provided to help with the clicking problem that still exists as I can't apply the kind of pressure necessary to push down and twist.
Thanks for any further assistance in advance.

[denman]

This dishwasher looks like it is close to yours
Free Appliance Repair Forum - Downloads

NOTE: I am not a pro and have never worked on a Magic Chef so buyer beware

Must say I find the descriptions used confusing as far as I am concerned an impeller pushes water and is inside the pump, a fan pushes air and is part of the motor.

Looked at the parts involved and it looks like there is a spring involved with the fan. Usually the spring body goes around the shaft with one end connected to the fan when the motor rotates the spring body grabs to the shaft and rotates the fan.
The clicking you hear is probably the end of the spring jumping out of where it should fit into the fan. Have you tried grabbing what is left of the fan with a pair of pliers and pulling it straight off

I believe the left hand thread reference applies to the water pump impeller this ensures the motor rotation does not undo the impeller assy.
Left hand thread - to loosen turn clockwise


Hope this helps

[bdcstpraise]

Dear Denman,
Hey thanks for the quick reply. Yeh, sorry for any confusion on the impellar/fan combo comments. But as you could see from the parts page, the fan of course is part of/or attached to the fan, and yes does have a spring in under on the shaft, so when I get a chance I will try to remove it as you suggested by just pulling it off. I didn't want to destroy as well the fan as per the description in the parts page, it appears to not be part of the shaft that runs from the impellar into or onto the motor shaft. It seems that plastic "cover" shaft should come right off of the motor shaft, but it seems that there is also an "O" ring that locks that plastic shaft into the plastic motor fan.
Anyway, I may have to use a vice to hold that plastic shaft and then get up on top of it to pull up on the motor to remove both from each other.
Kind of a crazy contortion to take apart such a small piece...this all to save money on a new machine...well, not working now over a year, funds are at nearly a minus, so this is my work now.
Now what I haven't figured out is where is the gasket seal that I was going after in the first place? Certainly the rubber expanding piece (#26) impeller seal definitely needs to be replaced as having a spring as well and some rust, it may do the trick. (#25) which is described as the housing assembly looks okay if they mean the ring/disklike thing, and doesn't seem to come without the rest of the housing which is certainly okay...tough enough to tear my knuckles as I struggled with separating the parts.
Anyway, when I get a moment, I'll try to remove the remaining piece/shaft from the motor shaft and I'll let you know what happens.
Thanks for the suggestion.

[bdcstpraise]

Dear Denman,
Oops, meant to put "motor" where the third mention of "fan" is in my comment: "sorry for any confusion on the impellar/fan combo comments. But as you could see from the parts page, the fan of course is part of/or attached to the "fan" (should have been "motor"), and yes does have a spring in under on the shaft, so when I get a chance...
Didn't want to comfuse you or the matter further.
Thanks for your patience and understanding.