[mcimcit1]

After Denman's reply of 2/14 @ 7:57PM, I replied, but it doesn't appear it was received. Also, I cannot figure out how to review our past back and forth.

You suggested ckg the flapper/solenoid operation to make sure it is operating freely and I asked if this can be done without purchasing another solenoid - - the solenoid I purchased a couple of week ago lasted just 2 cycles. You also suggested to ck that it should pull in fast and hard, and that I should watch it when it is running. You also indicated contacts start sticking before they weld themselves together - - what contacts are these?

Is it realistic that I can find the cause of the solenoid's repeated problem without purchasing another?

In thinking this through with my experience limited to installation of the previous solenoid, am I correct that for the solenoid to overheat to that extent, that either the flapper must be sticking or the user's control knob watchimajigger are faulty?

Your original email to this second burnout didn't seam to give much hope, so what would a serviceman on location then do? A neighbor of ours said he would just buy a new dishwasher. Would a professional such as yourself have the ability to contact the manufacturer for advise and am I at the point that I should do such?

I do appreciate all you help and the education has be exilarating.

[denman]

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If you have determined that the flapper valve is working correcty, then the next item to replace would be the timer and of coarse another solenoid

[mcimcit1]

Can I determine if the flapper is working correctly without another solenoid? Is the timer the inner workings of the user interface (dial) ie part of it? How can I be fairly sure of the additional problem before I burn out another solenoid?

[denman]

Yes: take the solenoid off and check the flapper operation manually

If the flapper is OK then 90% sure it must be the timer

[mcimcit1]

With the solenoid melted again, I put its plastic part only on the metal shaft and I could see through the plastic housing that the flapper was moving - - I believe the back and forth was about 45 degrees very very freely - - - - so does that mean that the flapper isn't the problem?

Before we move on to the timer, is it possible that my solenoid melts are the result of a short in the motor/pump?

I removed and checked all the timer connections, attached and got voltage to the solenoid plug at 9 points of the user/timer dial - - is there a diagram where I can confirm this? Also, is there a particular lenght of time each should be on? the grey wire goes to the solenoid, so is there something further I can ck on the timer so that I can find a problem without sacraficing another solenoid? If the timer is bad, would I notice the voltage to the solenoid plug staying on beyond a certain time limit?

[mcimcit1]

Haven't heard from you, so as I don't understand this site very well I thought I could be looking in the wrong place. As of now, I just need a little encouragement that I am choosing to go in the best direction from 3the directions: First, replace timer and again solenoid. Second, replace motor/pump complete which includes the new solenoid. Third, are there any other electrical PARTS that could cause the repeat of the solenoid problem. It would help me a lot if you could speak to the items sumarized in red on the previous coorespondence. Sorry to be so much trouble.

[denman]

I believe the back and forth was about 45 degrees very very freely - - - - so does that mean that the flapper isn't the problem?
Yes, from your description the flapper seems to be working correctly

Before we move on to the timer, is it possible that my solenoid melts are the result of a short in the motor/pump?
No, they are different circuits

I removed and checked all the timer connections, attached and got voltage to the solenoid plug at 9 points of the user/timer dial - - is there a diagram where I can confirm this?
I do not have a wiring/timer chart for this unit but it will depend on the cycle type you choose but this number does sound correct

Also, is there a particular lenght of time each should be on? the grey wire goes to the solenoid, so is there something further I can ck on the timer so that I can find a problem without sacraficing another solenoid? If the timer is bad, would I notice the voltage to the solenoid plug staying on beyond a certain time limit?
Yes you can check it. Clip your meter onto the solenoid input the power to the solenoid should be around 20 seconds. The solenoid is pulled down and then the water pressure holds the flapper closed so the solenoid is not powered for the entirs pump cycle

First, replace timer and again solenoid.
This is what I would do. Nothing is for certain because the your problem is intermittant. Every once in a while the timer contacts stick, this holds power to the solenoid for too long and it overheats.

Second, replace motor/pump complete which includes the new solenoid.
If the timer is the problem you will simply burn out the new solenoid.
The only way to be 100% sure of repairing the unit is to replace the motor/pump/solenoid assembly and the timer. It would make more sense to purchase a new dishwasher.

Third, are there any other electrical PARTS that could cause the repeat of the solenoid problem.
Not that I am aware of. Low voltae to the solenoid could cause overheating but you get 120 volts so that has been ruled out

Sorry to be so much trouble.
It is no trouble, sorry I did not get back to you sooner but I was out of town for a few days

[mcimcit1]

This morning, after installing the new timer, I started to install another new solenoid and I remembered that although the solenoid that started all this - - the first one to melt, had 2 springs - - a short one to hold the metal plate on and a longer one which I believe pulls up the solenoid plunger, each of the new solenoids PartSelect has sent consisted of multiple pieces in multiple packages, but only one spring each (the short one). For the first replacement I just used the old long spring to connect from the solenoid frame to the white plastic that attaches to the flapper control arm (that long spring had been used in that location previously); HOWEVER, cutting to the chase >>>>> could the repeditive problem I have be that the spring being used between the white plastic flapper control arm and the solenoid frame should be the shorter of the two which I presume would provide the stronger pull up for the solenoid plunger?

[denman]

I would try the longer spring first. If it works reliably stick with that one.
This will require less pull down force by the solenoid so should be easier on it.

I would put the short spring in a baggy with a short note and leave it under the dishwasher in case you need it in the future.

[mcimcit1]

The only picture I can find for putting the solenoid together is the parts list; however, it does not show how to install the spring that attaches to the white plastic (cam?) - - probably not show because the second spring is not supplied. It might be informative to know why it is not supplied. Also, you have indicated this spring has the reverse function than I thought - - please explain the operation. Finally, why is a second spring, the one that is supplied, used to hold the side plate in place instead of screws?